Dungeons and Dragons 4th Edition

Having read many of the proposed changes I am pleased to see they have fixed many of the things that are considered broken by experienced players.

The reduction of numbers of classes and potential removal of prestiges appears to be offset by much greater tailorability as characters progress.

As for costs I do find this an oddity when people get emotive over the cost of a book. People will sheleve out big money for a computer game that has a finite playability or pay monthly subscriptions to online games that for ever demand more for add-ons.

Yes its irritating to buy a newer version but if it is accompanied with a whole new set of scenarios then it will be worth it. The only shame at this point seems that it is not coming with a new world. Forgotten Realms is overplayed and out dated and should remain forgotten.

My 12 year old son and I have been dabbling with 3.5 for about a year and XBOX is still a far greater draw for both of us. Why? Well, ease of use, cheap, and the computer does the computations!

Having played dnd for nearly as long as the game has existed I enjoy the diversity offered by Ed 3.5.
If Ed 4 is to made more accessible by dumbing the game down for the playstation generation then it may alienate old timers.
I would agree there is a need for the current rules to be layered to enable a quick start for newbees.

I started playing occasionally in the mid 90’s and didn’t really get into dnd until 3.0, which I’m still satisfied with. Yes, the enormity of the rules is daunting at first, and there are scads of choices, if someone limits themselves to the PHB until they figure out what’s going on, it’s not that hard to learn.

I don’t know about anyone else, but while the fights are fun, what makes it fun is the storytelling and spending time with friends. In that regard, the rules don’t matter as much anyway.

Myself, i probably won’t switch until my current books have disintegrated, which is coming faster than I’d like to acknowledge.

I will most likely not be converting over right away. Mostly because I am not a fan of the way they are destroying the metaplot of D&D.

Some of the changes are good, and i might take them into account.

I have been playing D&D for many years, yet I got started with the 2nd ed. rules. This new set sounds interesting, and I have dabbled with 3.5. However, I believe that I will look at the core rules and might try it, probably won’t convert. Yet, WotC will squeeze a few bucks out of me.

If it aint broke don’t fix it.

I’m still on 2ed, and I run a Play-by-email with about a dozen players which started a year ago in 2ed: Mostly because 3.0 and 3.5 are too complex. I can shell-out $30-$50, and so can the players; but if I “allow” 3.5 stuff there are chances that the DM (me) will not be aware of the specifics of a prestige class that a player wants to play; It might be in a book that I don’t have: This makes the DM look bad, usually takes up a lot of conversation time and ends up making the game suffer. I’m still hoping to “refresh” my game to 4th edition: I’m just hoping I can limit the payers to “Core cules”, and that is often hard to do… Game on. Charles.

i have played D&D before it was AD&D, i looked over 1st Ed and was hooked by 2nd Ed. i completely ignored 3.0 and 3.5 because although it simplified the core mechanics, it went from a game with no skills, feats or talents to massive amounts of pointless text on skills and talents. most games get away with a page or two describing how skills should be applied and then describing the skills. that would’ve saved many headaches. also the AoO rules need tweaking.

My group has been playing for over 20 years. We currently play 3.5 and have already decided that we’re not going for 4th edition.

I have a huge library of 3.5 books. I loved the system. It had a steep learning curve, but once you get into it, get a few books, the game had nearly infinite options.

Hopefully 4e won’t rely so much on splatbooks with the advent of the online aspect.

I’m somewhat apprehensive of switching. Lots of books on an old system that is complex and somewhat confusing? Or a few books on a nice, streamlined rules set. Hmmm…. decisions, decisions

Although I’m a bit apprehensive, Im going to give it a shot. I’ll buy the 1-3 adventure and see how it goes. The list of changes covers a lot of the things we’ve houseruled over the years, so Im excited to see where Wizards is going with it. Ultimately, I was satisfied with the last big conversion, when 3rd edition came out, so I hope that Wizards pulls this one off well.

I like the fact that the Warlock is core, and also see the warlord as a breath of fresh air. Im a bit concerned about seeing the druid and barbarian (and monk, bard, and sorcerer, for that matter) get kicked to the curb, I guess it guarantees sales of the PHBII, but still…

I’m a little sceptic about 4th edition. I’m afraid that it is more like WOW then D&D. I’ve been playing D&D for 20 years now. What I like about 2nd ED is the simplicity of the rules. 3rd ED saw a huge variety of classes prestige classes etc. For me that’s the beauty of that ED. If 4th edition has the best of both worlds I will be playing that ED.

I don’t have a problem with Wizards coming out with 4th edition. It gives the people that have explored every aspect of 3 or 3.5 something new and adds more intrigue to the game.

There will be people that decide that they will not bother with 4th and stick with third because they don’t want to shell out the money, no problem, people still play 2nd edition.

I personally will get the 3 books for 4th edition, as i can easily shell out around $100 for the three books. And the part I like about this the most, is it forces Neverwinter Nights to make a new game, even though thats greedy of me because the new one isn’t that old

I play dnd since second edition, i played all edition since then, 2th, 3th and 3.5th.
I am pretty sure i ll play 4th, because their are each edition shaping the game.
I believe converting a campaing is not a good thing to do, but start over a new one is the thing that have to be done.
4th edition ll be make the game more balanced, and ll try to take out the “classes overpowering”.
I know wizards wants money, but they ll not make something worst than latter editions, so they ll be losing money, and they dont want it.

So, WotC can’t figure out how to make money on D&D anymore, having at long last invested enough gaming savvy to actually fix the system to a relatively logical, consistent, and playable game. Boo-freakin’-hoo. Here’s the problem: People buy books of rules, rulez, and more rools because they think they’re buying something new and worthy. They aren’t. They’re being suckered. WotC is not really a gaming company, it’s a publishing company. If they wanted to make money, publish 3.5 CONTENT, not more and more rules that inevitably just break more and more existing relatively balanced core rules. If you think you really need to buy that d20 supplement that allows you to design your very own 25th level Half-Demon Mindflayer Spawn Lycanthropic Vampiric Ninja Turtle Champion of the Flying Spaghetti Monster God of Thoon, you’re a retard. If you had half a brain, you could play a human fighter and enjoy it. It’s about the story, not the mechanics. If you think that it’s just no longer possible to have fun playing a standard PHB character race/class because it’s all been done before, you must have the attention span of a gnat. You’ve never really played D&D. Please, purchase 4E WOW (formerly known as D&D) and make WotC some more cash. Sell all your relatively unused 3.5 books back to Amazon resellers, where I can buy them at a fraction of their cost (assuming I actually find a need for most of the extraneous 3.5 crud that did get published). WotC, unfortunately, just cannot figure out what business it’s really in anymore. Perhaps they should just sell baseball trading cards and be done with it.

I played the game for more years then I care to count. It enough to say my character has been revamped at least 4 times personaly I think this 4th edition TRASH will be the version that I dont buy. Welcome back to horrible years

I won’t be getting into 4th ED. because I’m a fan of story not so much power-gaming… I’m happy though for the people who want nothing but slaughtering their opposition, because those people can go buy 4th ED.

Also, it’s possible that if the rules really are simple enough,the new version will indeed draw more players, and hopefully in time those players will realize that even the new rules can be used along with a good story. Once that happens, who knows, maybe they’ll just end up with a nice plot, or maybe they’ll try the other editions.
In the end, I’m hopeful…

I have the estabililshed that only one person need to know the rules to run a game: The DM. I dm to more than 20 friends, and as old players go away, new ones that never played are always coming. They just need to chose the basics – race, class, skills and feats, and spells for those who use it – and even in that a guidanceis crucial.
Of course an experienced DM is essential for this, but then only one new player realy needs to study the rules for real, then guide the rest through it.

In my opinion, this is only for WoC make money faster. I don’t blame them, but they could be sincere instead of say that is to ease up the rules.

I am personally really excited about 4th edition. I don’t view what they are doing is taking away from being able to tell good stories, but facilitating them. And lets face it, a story comes from the DM and his players, not the system. Pointing at the rules and saying, “My story is gone” is just silly. I am excited to see what they are going to do, and how they will make it easier for me to make my games more cinematic with out house rules to do so. Also, I fully support Wizards, as if they stopped making money, DnD would disappear and would fall into obscurity along with the rest of the RPGs that went under. “Mutant Chronicles” anyone, and I would hate to see the staple game of the industry go up in smoke.

My group fears 4th edition. We stuck with 2nd for a couple of years before switching to 3rd, and only one of us ever bought the 3.5 core books.

Personally though, the more I hear about 4th edition, the more I want to switch. I’m planning a new campaign now that I might postpone and consider running in 4th edition.

I’m excited about 4e, because it sounds like it will address some issues I’ve had with 3.5 and earlier. I am concerned about Druid becoming a non-core class when been around since the D&D companion boxed set.

Oh, wow… it’s paperback WoW.
They can’t even get a new edition to fix the fighter, who now reads like a glorified bodyguard. Or the Tanker / Warrior from City of Heroes / World of Warcraft.
Where’s the armoured warrior wading into combat and cutting a scythe through everyone… this just sounds like “I’m going to stand over here, guys, you all have some fun!” I don’t want to be guarding people, I want to be freaking charging the dragon/small army. I guess wanting to be a disciplined and armoured champion just doesn’t fit?
And Dragonblood? For crying out loud.

I play D&D with two groups, one group has some one that will DM 4.0 but i will not be buying any books. another group where i am currently DM will stick to 3.5 and may even jump back to 2.0 every now and again.

I will use 4th edition as a way to get back into the game. I like the new streamlined mechanics. Also they have given us the release dates months in advance, so we can start saving money now.
Also I really like the Dragonborn, the game is called Dungeons and DRAGONS so a playable dragon race make a lot of sense.

Wow….I couldn’t have even envisioned being so disappointed with 4th Ed. Looks like they are just trying to make yet another dumbed down video game. If I want to play video games….then I’ll play video games. This has all the personality of card collecting games.
No Thanks!

I’ve been gaming for over a decade and my group has decided not to buy 4th edition. Personally I think they’re just trying to adapt to a younger and younger audience who like things that just seem bizarre and disturbing to veteran gamers. Why they chose to put gnomes in the monster manual and whacky dinosaur-people into the PHB is beyond me, but hey if kids want to be psionic weretiger samurai, good for them.

There is a lot wrong with 3 and 3.5 that just spins my head. However the art work rocks. As such I will most likely adapt my games to this new way of thought, dogma, known as 4th edition simply because of cooler looking books.

For all those who have a problem with the price of the books. You can order the three core rule books as a gift set for 66.00 here. After shipping (I did the two day option) it only cost me just under 75.00 dollars for all three books, but there is a free shipping option as well. Not bad. If you only want one they are sold in singles with around an 11.00 discount. Check it out, its worth preordering. Not to mention Amazon gives an automatic 3.00 discount on preorders. Not bad if you ask me.

It seems that evolution isn’t suppose to happen to games. Yes, I played AD&D, and I loved my elven wizard. I played 3.0 (and 3.5) and I loved my halfling sorcerer. And I have order 4th edition. I am sure I will love may _____ _____. You see I have played other RPG’s too. I have played Palladium games, I have played GURPS, White Wolf. And a VAST variety of others. The key is to have good stories. Good company. And a good time. The focus of 4th edition is to streamline rules for a more fluid gameplay. Yes, WotC will make money. They are a business. Thats is what they do. And they’ve got my money. and I will have fun with this system the same as I have had fun with all the rest. I just look at it as evolution.

The creators of 3rd edition sat down to play there games and would come into moments where they say, “I’d have done this different.” After so many times they said “you know what LETS make it different.” Welcome to evolution 101.

Thats all I have to say about that.

Just got back from my local bookstore, where I took a look at Worlds & Monsters.
All I have to say is that 4E should be put down like the sick dog that it is.
It seems that the game revolves entirely around killing 200 different kinds of monsters. Did 3E or 3.5E? I would argue that no, it didn’t. Not all monsters existed to be slaughtered and grant the PCs a handful of Experience Points. Another very irksome paradigm Wizards seems to be laboring under is that enemy encounters (which must all end in death, of course) must last 5 rounds. The best encounters my group has ever had lasted 8, 10, or even 14 rounds. Cutting a massive swath of death through an army of enemies is not as much fun as skin-of-your-teeth victories, IMO.
If, by what I read in the book, so many monsters are hostile to humanity, why haven’t the wimpy humans been all killed off by now?
Most of the things I read made me cringe: killer pixies that swarm you and strip the flesh from your bones? Dragons whose primary motivations are to kill and eat, and collect shinies? Hello?! What about their magical abilities? Or are they now, much like the dragonblood, glorified dinosaurs?
And what’s with the dryads’ new look? Seems they found the Entwives.
I wish they’d returned troglodytes to their 2E appearance, which was more reptilian and less humanoid: now they look like some bizarre half-dwarf crossbreed.
I’m sorry, but altering metallic dragons, angels, and other traditionally good creatures so that Wizards can justify putting their stats in the MM and so that the PCs can have an excuse to kill them is just, in my mind, more of the rampant munchkin ego-stroking that put me off from 3.5 for so long, and that seems to be consuming 4E from its inception. Count me out.

I started playing with 1st ed, then 2nd, now playing 3.5…With D&D I am always willing to give everything at least one try. At the end of the day DMs can adjust rules to fix what is broken. I wish there were more of us left to sit at a table and play the game like we used to.

From what I have seen so far, I like the 4th Ed ideas. Now, I have been playing since Hobbits were in the rules [still have that old white box too]. I think change is inevitable and like the ideas that I have seen so far.

One person said “If it ain’t borke don’t fix it.” Well, I think there is enough broke to warrent fixing.

Personally I am excited to get to 4th edition. I was hesitant to switch to 3rd edition when it first appeared but after making the transition I never looked back. Let’s be honest explaining the THAC0 system to a new player was a challenge in and of itself. I felt that the transition to 3rd edition gave the game a flexibility that 2nd edition never had and also expanded on characters by giving them feats and skills. Now no longer was a 10th level fighter the same as every 10th level fighter, save the magic items that he had accumulated. With feats the emphasis shifted away from magic item hoarding into character development.

As the years rolled on I began to see significant problems with the 3rd edition. My biggest complaint was with the open gaming license. I thought the open gaming license is a great idea, but it needed to be regulated in some way. Books, like those published by Mongoose, were completely unrealistic and contained feats that were just completely unbalanced. Also there was a large curve in the character progression where characters excelled in a certain “sweet spot” as described by the 4th edition game engineers. The magic system, although reliable has been outdated forever. I have always felt that the power level of spells should grow with the wizard casting them. Why is it that Merlin the Wizards charm person spell is only nominally better than Bob the Wizard? Shouldn’t Merlin’s charm be practically irresistible without him having to metamagic it into a level 8 spell?

With the advent of D20 modern I began to see a shift in thinking that I was excited about. Modern introduced talent trees, which I appreciated, but still had many of the fundamental issues included in 3rd ed.

The new Star Wars Saga edition is by and far the most rounded system that they have created in my opinion. I like the fact that things progress as the character progresses. I feel that the new 4th edition is going to be very similar in many ways to the SW Saga edition. If this is the case then I will have no problem picking it up.

Remember that D&D has been evolving for years. I see this as the next step in the evolution of a game that I have enjoyed for over 15 years. At the root it’s the same no matter the mechanics, it all comes down to role playing. Sure we can break down if the fighter is statistically better than the Paladin but a good DM can equalize any disparity in the game and keep all the players feeling that they have the coolest characters ever. I think Ill give it a chance, I hope it’s everything they are talking about.

I have everything from day one…basic/expert, AD&D, 2nd Edition, 3.0, 3.5, 3.5.1.2.1, etc. That said…I play 2nd Edition. On those rare times when I leave Savage Worlds or Alternity to play D&D.
But I will buy 4th Edition. The primary draw for me is the online part of the game. This is something innovative that I can use!

Havent bothered reading or thinking about 4th Ed Only because 3.5 was good enough without needing to make another version that leaves behind the 3.5 rules. With the comments that compare it to WOW and COH im glad i havent wasted my time. Roleplaying is meant to stretch the mind and make people think about solutions not dumb them down. Adding player rules and tweaking the systems on your own was what made the origonal so fun.
Granted a base set of rules and knowing what abilities do what are good but there was a time when players had to come up with them on thier own and convince a DM to allow it for one reason or another. Instead of “dumbing it down” for lazy people who cant figure out what dice to roll when and what limitiations are reasonable for what, why dont we overcomplicate it with jargon only people with half a mind and more can understand so we leave the PC gamers where they belong, glued to thier pathetic glittering box of useless dreams.
True gamers game for the interation with friends and the chance to be someone they will never be in story and legends known only to a close knit circle. The day i sit down with a gamer at a table who says they just pwnd a goblin with a 20 roll is the day i give up gaming all together.

I’ll admit that i have a mild curiosity of what the new system will be like, but from what i’m hearing so far i don’t like it. It seems to me that WoTC is trying to turn the greatest tabletop RPG ever into a video game, so that they can pick up the short attention span demographic. It seems that D&D will now truly go mainstream. Dumbed down so that the idiot ex-jocks that used to harass us in high school because we played D&D can now jump on the trendy bandwagon and play thier hack and slash version of a classic game that used to be about imagination and creativity that required a certainlevel of intelligence to play. I switched from 2.0 to 3.0 and 3.5 because they were more dynamic systems, not because they were easier. But now, it seems, the power gamers are getting thier way. I agree with Curmudgeon in this matter. Good gaming isn’t about being able to make a character so complex that it takes you an hour to update his sheet for next level. It’s about the story, though some today think it’s about building an Uber-character that can mow through armies of goblins at 3rd level. Part of the fun of D&D is the challenges, and not all of them are combat oriented. If the only challenges you encounter are combat, it’s gonna be a pretty boring game. If that’s the kind of game you prefer, then go play a video game and leave D&D alone.

It seems to me that 4th edition is Wizards trying to stay in the black by producing a whole new set of books for people to buy, and in the process dumbing the ideas down to pander to the WoW generation. I got into DnD soon after 3rd edition came out and I’ve played 3.5 a few times. 3.5 fized a lot of the problems that existed with 3, although some still linger. 4th edition represents Wizards’ attempt to solve the problem of staying relevant in the light of the MMORPG-era and the omnipresent issue of staying afloat. To me, the solution is rather obvious.

1) Scrap all the 4th edition rule changes and online content and all the mumbojumbo.

3) Tweek the problems that exist 3.5, and streamline the ridiculous numbers of feats, prestige classes, magic items, and spells.

4) Scrap DnD Online: Stormreach and replace it with a product that is fun to play and can actually compete with the other MMOs in the market.[See below]

I haven’t played DDO, and I probably won’t. Not becuase I didn’t have the time or the money, but because it looks boring. The new setting was an instant turnoff. Why should I take the time to orient myself to a completely new world when there are a plenty of perfectly good settings laying around?

Mostly, however, I was driven away by DDO’s “liberal” adaptation of DnD rules and core concepts. If Wizards took the time and effort to produce an MMORPG that was truely massive and truely a role-playing game, and they set it in Forgotten Realms they could stay relevant in the current gaming world and at the same time be more profitable than ever.

I own ever 3.5 dnd book and like hell if im shelling out thousands of more dollars so they can have better sells 2nd edition was around for at least 20 years before they came out with 3rd 3.5 not even 5 before they are trying to make a 4th wizards doesn’t give a rip about the game the just want to resell their old crap in a new way

A message to all these people hating on 4th ed.:
Have any of you actually read reviews from playtesters?! There’s a very good one in which the reviewer explains that not only do you get experience for combat (as you’d expect), but also for completing quests, engaging in diplomacy and (horror of horrors!) roleplaying. Whether the game is a success or not, it sounds to me like there will be multiple layers to the experience of play, and anyone who’s been doing this a while will, I’m sure, agree that this is a good thing. The old guard who’ve been playing for years will not see any change except in the speed of the game, and the new blood will be swept up in it just like we were the first time we pulled the plastic off the blue box. So it’s being compared to WoW on the tabletop…Hmmm. WoW has over 8’000’000 players online. wouldn’t it be nice if a tabletop RPG could, for once, hold that kind of audience?

I have spent well over $300 on all the 3.5 books. I have played DnD here and there, but didn’t get really into it untill 3.5. I have made my own universe and have made three storys based on it. Which my group has run each a couple of times.

However, I have already preorderd 4E. From the Races and Classes preview, as well as, the Worlds and Monsters. I saw that they fixed all the stuff. That, either bugged me about 3.5 or just didn’t seem to work. Example, the Great Wheel which gave birth to monsters like the ooze mephit.

Anyways, the group I play with,as well as myself, are very excited about 4E.

I have no problem with the rules I have seen so far, but I have huge problems with what they are doing to the core setting, and I fear what will become of the Forgotten Realms and Eberron under this new childish direction.

i have a couple of complaints with what i have heard about 4.0.

the first of whitch is the saves, the fact that they now work like armor class dosen’t upset me as much as as the fact that everyone’s saves will literally always be within 3 or 4 pts of eachother, where’s the variety, before you fought for saves, class value was detirmed in part by them, now everyone will be happy because their WOW saving throw systems makes them all equal.

another complaint i have with the system is the fixed hp. this revision is “supposed” to make every tenth level fighter unique, but it seems to me that they all will have the exact same hp. Not only that but with limiting the creation of stats to only the point buy system, you garentee that every fighter that specializes in any given weapon will have identical stats to every other fighter that specializes in that weapon. it seems to me that wizards is making the game less varied and more dull, powergamer, WOW rip off.

i have already ranted about how they raped the wizard see my post under the not enough time blog.

now i will rant on how wizrds raped the cleric, lets begin with the basics, the turn undead ability has ben crippled. now lets go to the root of the problem, everyone can spontainiously heal themselves! really what were they thinking, how does a figher of all people suddenly decide that the giant gash across his chest is no longer relevant? hello, there is nolonger any need for a cleric in the party, because its primary role as the healer has been outsourced.

and the spells oh my god… why on earth do they have encounter length duration, it ruins so much potential. not only do spells have a random duration but they never quite on the pc’s isn’t that nice, arn’t they so cute with their buff spells that never quit. where is the lethality of the game? Before pc’s were hardpressed to finish the enemies before their buffs wore off, without using to many of their resources, so they could survive the next battle. that is all gone now, half of the gaming (not social) fun is gone. Now pc’s can burn their spells without regard because a spell is once per encounter and it will always be available, and they can always heal whenever they need to and and and and and, NO MORE LEATHALITY. i am a hard dm, i take pride that in my campaign for the three years it lasted only one of the orriginal characters is still alive, everyone else went through two or three characters, and they liked it too. the only survivor prided himself in his ability to live, and the others got to try out multiple character builds to see how they handled the stress of combat. but now that pc’s have identical saves, identical hp, reduced party significance, and literally infinite spells per day, we can all rest happily in the fact that no one will ever die because you have to be reduced to negative gajillion hit points before death, and that any healing heals you all the way back to positive no madder if 90% of your body was maimed.

there is no more character uniqueness, my wizard will have a simular fort save as my fighter, with fixed hp all the characters will have identical hit points with every other character in that class, people who play wizards don’t have to think outside combat, each class has a fixed party role that is unbending, no longer can you aparently maintain multiple buffs (have to concentrate) limiting your ability to create spell combo’s. the cleric can heal people by hurting your enemies (so in other words all of the gods really, really love violence to reward their servants with healing everytime they hurt an enemy), the em no longer has to be able to judge the strenght of his pc’s (thats all been removed) a first level character can have 30+ hp (its true check the moster section on this site, a first level gaurd has like 31 hp), its nearly impossible for a pc to die, i could go on and on.

this edition looks like its going to suck !@@. and i mean that in the worst possible way, the wizards of the coasts have revamped the game to apeall to adhd pre-teens that can’t read a book for five minutes before getting bored.

Okay, all you nay-sayers do realize there won’t be a law forcing you to buy 4th ed? If you prefer 3.5…wait for it…stick with 3.5.

“But we want a new system with this fixed, and this fixed.”

You also realize you can modify and/or change rules as you and your players see fit, right? There also, and I know this may be hard to comprehend, is no law requiring you to strictly adhere to the rules of the 3.5 holy trinity without modifying ANYTHING to suit your own needs and the needs of your adventurers.

Having said that…I’m looking forward to some fresh material and a new start. Bring on the 4th edition.

yeah i kinow no body is “forced” to convert to 4.0 but they have stopped printing 3.5 books whitch means that they will disapear, faster than bush’s approval rating. the disadvantage of using an houserules more than just little twiks is that they are unique to each group, so therefore your character builds will be incompatable with other groups. (it does depend on the severity of the twik).

i would also like to ask a question to anybody who can answer it.

How have they not raped the cleric?

consider these points first…

1. any character can heal at least once per encounter by themselves, for a nice chunk of hp therefore reducing the clerics importance.

2. they have weakened turn undead

I will switch to 4th. The new balance brought to the classes seems interesting. Also the new half-elf seem to not suck anymore.

And as an answer to John Henry in the previous comment. The cleric always have been extremely powerful. A cleric could do a better job then a fighter, heal himself and cast spell to attack. I’m actually happy that they nerfed it.

i agree, they made the half-elf a non sucking race, i do aprove of that.

I love the new concepts and fully intend to embrace this new system. I say a happy good bye to a very complex 3.5 system.

When 3rd edition came out, I adamantly refused to convert. There was, after all, nothing wrong with the current game.

…but I did.

And then when 3.5 came out, and wasn’t even a change in the rules, but a silly update, I adamantly refused to upgrade.

…but I did.

And with 4th edition coming out, I’ve announced to all my friends we won’t be switching over. That its clearly rubbish and not worth our time.

…but I know I will.

Blast you and the hold you have over me, D&D!

I sill like playing Classic Traveller.

I for sure will play 4.0 because it seems to be fixing or changing everything that i don’t like about 3.5

i’m pumped for the new books

Why couldn’t they just put the new rules into another alternate rule book, such as the “Unearthed Arcana”

I am confused as to why WotC felt the need to push gnomes into the Monster Manual and replace them with tieflings. Tieflings are great as a core race, but gnomes are freaking ubiquitous. I could tolerate the differences between 3 and 2, and I do think 3.5 was a good clean-up, even if it broke some characters for no reason. But 4e is simply not going to be on my bookshelf. Ever.

i’m going to stick with the old version, there are amny rules i don’t like with the 4th edition, for instance human are now terrible, nothing has penalties, fighters can only use 3 weapons, and no more half orcs!!! the 3.5 version is perfectly good, and all that will happen is that edition 4.5 will come out a few months later.

“The secret we should never let the gamemasters know is that they don’t need any rules. ” – Gary Gygax

That said I’m open to the change. And I have ordered my books. I think it’s more accessible which is great. As I have friends who have a hard time playing due to 3.5’s complexity

I always liked to play an “intelligent” warrior & always hated it that in old D&D intelligence did not help you much, but together with the able learner feat at least you got plenty skills.
Now intelligence gives you a bonus to AC & nothing more, if you want to play an “intelligent” character you are completely forced to play magical. Even when you play an intelligent warrior you would have to multiclass magically. Why can’t intelligence give what intelligence actually is namely the ability to learn fast & efficient? Are there only dumb warriors, do you really learn to wield a sword faster if you are completely dumb?
Bye,

Arent

There really is no need for a new “rule set”. It’s just a money thing to WotC imo. You don’t need the “rules”. They are just guidelines anyway. If you want to play something differently just take the time and change it yourself and make it work for you.

I have a nice collection of books from AD&D on up. But, I just glance over them and take what I want, and leave what I don’t. Honestly, it has come down to spending a few hours at Books-A-Million reading the gaming books and then converting it to my use.
I would recommend to try that before buying 4th edition.

the character sheet confuses me. Why do you add half your class lv to the ability modifiers? Does this mean using the point buy system i can give my wizard 8 str, and by twentith level he’ll have a plus nine modifier, whitch means that that scawny wizard can not bend and iron bar out of sheer strength. WTF, really WTF, why would a fighter with a 10 cha at level one be allowed to have a plus ten cha bonus, does all those battle scars make them handsome and charming and persuasive and likable, wait a sec, they don’t.

This is pure bull crap and you know it.

I won’t be converting right away (possibly never, if my friends continue playing the 3rd and 3.5 edition). Some of the new rules aren’t as good as I imagined, and some are inventive and cool enough, but still… I’ve started playing about seven years ago, when the 3rd edition just got to the stores, and I’ve been playing all editions (except 1st) for a long time now. It’ll be hard to accept something new. The technology advancement effects us all, but still i think that there are just a few things we should do on a computer. Creating characters (for newbies) and reading books (for people who don’t have the money to buy a bookstore) during a session. I prefer the old system currently, but who knows? In a matter of months I just might be playing the 4th edition.

I for one will be converting to the new rules. Race seams to have a larger impact, and the new classes seam nice. I hated the skills system in 3.5, and I think that, although I don’t want the game to be too easy, a little simpler might be nice. I would like to see an easier combat system (screw flat footed and touch AC), and some cool new options. I think 4.0 will be a breath of fresh air for DMs and Players alike.

3.5 ROCKS! I found it so easy to learn. the best thing about it is you can choose to make it as hard or as easy as you like. You don’t realy even have to make it uniformly hard/easy. I’ve played in groups where players are using whatever books they want, and it doesn’t affect ANY of the other players in the least. From what I’ve seen, 4th Ed is indeed “dumming down”. WotC are trying to write down a computer game, not refine DnD. My current group has agreed not to switch.

I’ve ordered. I played D&D, I played AD&D, I played AD&D2e, AD&D2e with the maroon softback expansions, AD&D2e with the black hardback expansions, D&D3e, and D&D3.5E. I’ll play D&D4e.

I like some of the changes. I like that wizards aren’t limited to all spells-per-day; resource management was interesting, but inevitably you end up with adventuring parties setting their sleep cycles to the wizard’s need for fresh spells more than the actual passing of time. I like the idea of progression being more customisable.

There are aspects I’m less keen on. It does seem to be dumbed down alot, and I’m sure this is to appeal to WoW players. To be fair, borrowing ideas from a business model that persuades six million players to pay out ten pounds a month can’t be a bad decision. Roleplayers always complain about gaming companies making commercial decisions, like there’s something evil about a profit-making company following policies that… you know… make profits.

I’ll read and play and see what I think. I have a number of D&D3.5 books, and will no doubt be able to buy a bunch of cheap old 3.5 books in the coming months; if I end up not liking 4e, I can always go back to what I know.

I’m personally excited about 4th edition.

The facts of the matter is, 3.5 is WAY too cluttered by mechanics. Dungeons and Dragons is a roleplaying game, and this should facilitate that.

I mean, checks like use rope were ridiculous. They slowed down the game. Too much was about rolling dice and maxing stats. This edition should allow for character development and customization, while smoothing out the gameplay so that it’s enjoyable and easy to use.

And if you don’t like something, remember – These are guidelines. The DM can add or remove any mechanics they want.

Id love it if this edition came to be as “stable” as 2e and would last like 10 years with no 4.5 or anything of that like, PBH2 with the barbarian and druid… maybe a well researched Oriental Adventures, with maybe even 2-3 books for it, but no mayor change in the rules (if they are so well done there shouldn be no need for it…)

that would be cool

Well we just got 4.0 and i must say I was at first disapointed in things it almost felt like a step back but then i read on ^^ as i did i began to see how they fixed things though im still sore about some of the weapons being tweak *coughs* greatsword *coughs* I can understand the changes, in the first place i hated ppl doing the cherry picking of classes just for a few benefits personally i would always only ever have 3 classes at the max and one of them was almost always a prestige class, I like the new way they do multiclassing ^^, and i love the minions rule that had to be the thing that really pulled me over.
For those wondering about the character modifiers, No the 1/2 level is for skill checks etc and for ability checks, with a strength of 8 and at level twelve you’ll only have a strength check of +5 to bend bars is usually a DC20 so you would need to roll a 15 ^^, none of the bonuses apply to damage etc.
P.S. They made it easier for dms making an encounter is as easy as picking how much xp you want the players to get that encounter and then filling is the monsters (each monster has an XP reward next to its name now)

I picked up 4th edition yesturday, on world wide D&D day. I played an adventure at my local uncles games store, before i bought a players handbook, just to see if i liked the changes, and i must say, i am going to convert from 3.5 to 4. Ive gotten the handbook, and out DM has the special combo pack of all 3 books. It was really nice to play it before I bought. everything we used in-game, we got to keep, including miniatures, dice, character sheets, etc…

Having seen the new books at last, it looks to me like a games that is streamlined to make you keep paying more consistently than ever before.

There isn’t much in the three core books. Some people are commenting that this is because the system has been simplified. I think it is merely that the second set and the third set of D&D core books and so on will have the rest. Cha-CHING!

What hurts me the most is how much they have gutted the mythology of the D&D worlds. D&D to me is the Great Wheel and the Planes and certain traditional races, classes, spells and monsters. I particularly object to the new races of Dragonborn and Tiefling. To me, in this game, you go to find the dragons and demons – you don’t become them.

Five years was a ridiculously short time for 3.5 to exist before rewriting the game. I hope you all realize that by the current clock, 4.5 will be out in 2011 and 5.0 will make all your 4.x books useless in 2015.

3.5 will do for me forever I think, although I will continue to buy the minis. It will be interesting to see how it all pans out.

Most importantly, however you play the game, please enjoy yourselves!

D&D 4.0

Like many, I started in the old days of the blue basic book back in ’78. I enjoyed D&D, AD&D, 2nd Ed, and many aspects of 3rd/3.5 as well, but I’m not overly happy with 4.0 so far.

As others have commented, yes it does seem like this is designed to be like an MMORPG, and as a CoH player, I recognize the reasons why people see that. It doesn’t seem to be as much of an RPG anymore. I’m not saying it is made solely so munchkins can max/max (no more need for min/maxing!) their characters, but it does seem to be moving towards that.

I’ll give a prime example for that here. Starting stats will probably never be below 10, and races only give bonuses and never penalties to stats. And with the quick march to higher and higher stats, it doesn’t really seem to matter much anymore how strong/intelligent/charismatic a character is. Heck, you’ll get those stats up high quickly enough. It may just be me, but I always thought that the fun in role-playing was playing not only the strengths of a character, but the weaknesses too. A friend of mine played a 2nd edition druid with a 6 Int brilliantly. She wasn’t very smart, and she wasn’t a very quick learner, and she made some boneheaded errors, but her high wisdom meant that she had the sense to learn from her mistakes and not repeat them. That campaign lasted for about a year back in the late 80’s, and I can still remember that character clearly because of her flaws as well as her strengths.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m obviously reading the PHB and trying to grasp the reasons for changes and see what is there instead of griping about what isn’t. My view of D&D has always been like Egg Shen’s (from Big Trouble in Little China) view of Chinese religions; “We take what we want, and leave the rest. A lot like your salad bar.” I ran a hybrid D&D game along those lines for several years after the 3rd ed came out. I liked that everyone had something to look forward to when they leveled with skills, so I imported most of the 3e skills so a fighter would have something to look forward to when he leveled up other than another d10 hp. Non weapon proficiencies just simply sucked in 2e, so I was glad to leave them on the salad bar. I may find some things I’ll use as I go along, but so far it almost seems that this version was designed to help increase sales of the tabletop minis game and satisfy the ‘don’t want no drawbacks to my character’ crowd players as much as anything else. That doesn’t appeal to me.

As I’ve said, I’ve been reading and I’ll keep reading, and maybe I’ll find more to like but so far it hasn’t. A friend of mine who read the PHB over the course of several slow days at the comic/game store he owns (I wish I had his job :-p ) said it best for me so far. “It’s not a bad game system, but it’s not D&D.”

Side note: Astral Diamonds? What the…? 500 per POUND? Are they like Pop Rocks candy???

Sad story at the bar: Joshua the thief sighs into his ale, “Yes, I had made the biggest score of my life. A pouch of Astrals was in my possession after I robbed the guild master of the merchant’s guild. A full freaking pouch, and I was set for life. If only I hadn’t wanted just one more look into the pouch on my way back to the safe house. There I was in that dockside alley, marveling at the way they glinted and gleamed in the solitary shaft of moonlight that pierced the overcast night sky above. And then, of all the times of my life to sneeze, and poof they were gone.” Tarrel the barkeep shook his head, “That’s a sad story Joshua. By the way, I’ll need to see some coin before I’ll give you a refill…”

I have looked at the classes, and I have looked at the rules, and I have read the three new books, and I have to say, I really like the flexibility that 3.5 had alot better. When I play 4.0 or run games in 4.0 I feel like I’m playing a table-top version of WoW. Personally I like the idea of 27 different base classes and 145 prestige classes. I don’t like the idea of really only having about 12 choices of what you want to be. I don’t like the idea of being milked for money hoping that the PHB II or PHB III will give me more options. Thanks WotC but no thanks, I’ll stick to 3.5.

I am the dm of a 3.5 game with some friends, and I have always loved the 3, and then the 3.5 system.
I will not be going to 4.0, now that my group of nine has learned how gameplay and mechanics work in 3.5, a change would set us back quite a bit.

I recently bought the new Phb and I thought i made a mistake. I thought i bought a DnD book, but when I looked in it about 75% of the things I love about DnD, the things that made me want to play it instead of video games, were gone. As I read more into the book I was apalled to discover that spells have been replaced with powers. Now they still have the catagory of spell, but the entire heart of it has been carved out. Where did the spell schools go? Where did the material requirements for the spells go? What happened to the exotic flair of spells being more than simple talents that anyone can do? This is one of the many flaws I see in the new rules of DnD. I won’t go into more detail about what I think, but will leave you with this question: “Where has all the magic gone?”

P.S. If i wanted to play World of Warcraft I would play World of Warcraft

well i have played aD&D !st edition for over 12 years and there was nothing wrong with 1st edition the newest edition are too much like video games and all the new systems are bogus and they have added unnecessary things to the game system

“Right now there’s about 27 base starting classes anyone can choose from and about 145 different prestige classes. It literally takes hours for a new player to understand the rules enough to even begin playing the game.”

And God forbid if anyone throws a book or two out to make it simpler on newbies. You know, like sticking to the core three books instead of handing him a stack of books four feet tall and telling them to read everything before beginning. Or helping a new player through character development and game play. Because we all know that’s too hard and too limiting.

First of all, props to those who know what Traveller and Alternity are.

Second, congrats on the Gygax quote- “don’t let them know they don’t need any rules.”

Having read through v4, there are a few things I like. And thats it. Really, I could count them on one hand, but they are good ideas. Not enough to get me to switch.

That being said, I’ve never quite been happy with the DnD systems, but I’ve been able to tweak them in the direction I prefered.

I loved v.2 for it’s extensive, well written, rounded and researched publications. They were steeped in history and mythology- 4000 years of the most complex and interesting ‘development’ you can get. Unfortunately the system wasn’t quite as flexible as I’d like. I bought all the books.

Consequently I loved v.3x for it’s flexible and well designed system (which was easily given a realist bent from the content in the v2 books). Unfortunately the result of the WotC buyout was a landslide of mindless drivel that the WotC writers loosed upon us in their publications. Good for buisness, bad for reputation. I bought the basic books and borrowed the rest.

As it appears, v4 is a combination of the mindlessness of v3’s writers, increased greed on the production end (how many months before we get back to 27 classes and 145 paragon routes?), and a gutting of the flexibility that made v3 useful.

I understand the need to keep a buisness going and to evolve. I just wished it was evolution, not devolution (is that a word?). I won’t buy any of the v4 books, but I might steal a few ideas for my own system.

ps-
Anyone else think, while reading through the v4 classes, “hey, this ‘powers’ thing would be really great if they printed it out on cards,” and then promptly puke, realizing that might be exactly what they’re going for- dnd as a collectable card game?

I was bit skeptical about 4.0, but also enormously excited by it’s potential and possibilities. Now that I have played a game, I really like this new system. Some of the at-will powers get a little stale using them time after time, but mix in encounter and daily powers and then gameplay starts to get interesting. Yes, there is a little less flexibility among the characters and their “paragon” paths, but it’s a fun system overall.

I only read though PHB 4 (Just peeked at MM, DMG) and GM one session. But I really like the all classes function in the same way and seams equally powerful. In 3.5 there where ways to make a character a lot more powerful then the standard character created with only PHB. The more supplements the came out the more powerful character you could build, I don´t really like that. As a GM I want all my players to be equally good even if don´t have read though all the supplements available and planned your character from L1 to L20.

The only thing I wonder about is that the monsters i 4 edition have a lot more HP then the players at the same level and this only increase as the level increases for the monster.
For example a Gnoll has 11 HP in 3.5 and is a CR1 in 4 a goblin has 29 Hp and it is more then most of the characters that I have created, Only Fighters and Paladins have more HP at L1 at least at higher levels it is even worse I guess.
I see that the powers from the playersclasses usually do more damage then a monster at the same level does but it was usaully the same i 3.5 as well except the monsters had lower HP then the heroes not the opposite

i want to cry out loud…

Why?! Im a Game Master and tried many, many Systems and what i loved most was the D&D. I saw the signs of a new edition and didnt think any bad of it, but it was a shock!
Now it´s going to be a teethless Animal? Still alive by -10HP, endless Spells for Wizards, Aggrolevel for Tanks…
Whats with the fear of the things that might come? Now, no one has got to plan for the next encounter, no one has to rest and be afraid that he might be out of magic when something happens.
but so far to the rules.
Wotc, why dont they remember what they made big? the Background! many, many background Storytelling books that made us dream of that worlds and we wanted to travel in. DM´s read it and got ideas for plotings and it was great.

Ok. past is past and i will not buy any 4ED Book. But what i will do is searching for many other background Books (Thats the Stuff Wotc should make: Dreams! not Rules)

PS:
I live in Germany so forgive my bad syntax.

greetings,

Cobalt

In regards to post 78, Yes the creatures have more hit points but they get no healing surges which the charaters do. It is well balanced. You more than likely have figured that out by now. As for the storytelling. Yes they made a battle game. Its up to the DM/GM to fix that. There is no reason not to create a great story line around the system

I am an old timer and looking to convert my original D&D 23rd level mage and party to 3.5 or possibly 4th as this may encourage the DM to resurrect this campaign on Mystara but I can’ find any conversion charts. By original I mean back in the days when elf or dwarf was a character class. Can anyone help?

To comment on the 4th edition as i am a true slave to marketing of this product; I love it so far and am in the early stages of DM’ing Shadowfell Keep I have not played 3 or 3.5 much so don’t know if it’s an improvement or not but enjoy the closly structured combats more. I think my players do as well, nearly being wiped out by the first two kobold encounters made these experienced players sit up and pay attention. I see a lot of comments here and agree that story & atmosphere are the DM’s job and in my brief review of the the new DMG I think WotC have made this clearer than before. I have sat on on D&D games that played more like WoW or a table top war game but these were due to DM inexperience or confidence. Please if you can help me with my conversion problem let me know on here?

As a fellow DM I was a bit excited when i first witched the pre-release of 4th edition on the web. from what they said it was shaping up to be a great mix of 3.5 with just a little bit more simple. do you all still remmeber the saying.

“don’t grab the troll”

well after 4th came out and i got a chance to read it……lets just say as a player of D&D for 20 years and thourgh a few editions of the game, I was very sadden……Not just for the death of Gary Gygax which was this year, but for the death of D&D……..I will morn you alot….and contiune to play my version of 3.5 D&D.

Hope you all can find a bit of silver in the clouds of big money that they really just wont with this new market ploy.

I started under 2nd Edition, but when 3.0 and then 3.5 came out, I was quick to snap them up. 3.0 & 3.5 did make things more complex, but they also removed the over-generalising from 2nd. 4th looks worse. In 3.0 & 3.5 characters can have a real variety of strengths and weaknesses, and you can build a character to fit whatever idea you have. Even without all the extra books you could do this.
Want a finesse based fighter? weapon finnesse, high dex, maybe a few levels of rogue and improved feint. Want to create a character like your favourite Dragonball Z character, mix Monk and Sorcerer.
This was (I think) the real strength of 3rd edition. the versatility in character design. I know there was still plenty broken, but it didn’t need to be dummed down and have 3rd ed’s biggest strength ripped out.
Also, someone said this’ll force them to make a new NWN computer game? No chance, these rules look like they’d be most at home on a game for your phone, they’re just too simplistic for the huge following of NWN fans.

DnD4 Spells the death nell for independently developed campaigns. WotC’s primary goal in developing a new core system is to secure creative control of the DnD brand. No more access to the SRD unless you are an approved developer and are willing to shell out an unspecified fee. Have these guys been attending business seminars conducted by Bill Gates?
I first noticed something wrong when all of the archived first and second edition stuff disappeared from Their website. I predict that within six months all of the third edition stuff will be gone too. But if people are happy with the new product, and anyone who has teenagers knows that a new product in which all the creative work has already been done is just what they’re looking for. Hey WotC, how about designing a product to market to the old schoolers who actually enjoy the process of developing a campaign?

I have been writing stories, modules and scenarios since 1979. I always enjoyed the way tat the mechanics shifted slightly from gaming group to gaming group; that is playerz set the level of intensity. If I ran a game for a group that was new to gaming they stuck rather close to the rules. However, the groups with mostly veteran players would often request harder monsters and greater challenges. The point: So long as the game system is easily manipulated to the party it is a good system.
I had the opportunity to meet Jim Wyatt at GenCon 08. He reminded me of a younger version of another guy I thought allot of . A guy that would stop whatever he was doing to play a game with you. Would talk about changes to the game and how your ideas fit into his game or if they didn’t how you could make it work. In short – Both were guys that wanted to see the game succeed – not so much in order to get paid, but because they loved it and wanted to see it flourish. I suppose Jiw would blush if he found anyone comparing him to the Prime DM and I can’t know everything about him but I am certain that he has the spirit of the game at heart. So I have given it a shot. I like the lessening of challenges for those folk that are not into complex games (some are and that is great). I absolutely LOVED the way that he spoke of altering the game and how one could even play impromptu games with a couple people rather than a full group. It gave me the feeling that he had done what I had many a time and that is rolled up 5 or 6 characters and ran them thru a scenario thre or four times just to see what happened. This release is new and I will indeed adapt it to my world (I have over 20 years in that place). Some races wont be used or they may be altered (name changed to protect the innocent). Some of the abilities will be altered on some classes and some classes will be added (my game is big on Psionics). In the end I will use the foundation that was proven by someone that loves the game and looks forward to checking everyone’s surprise.

i wouldnt say that 4.0 is a “dumbed down” version, even though it is much less complicated. alot of the unnecessary extras were taken out, such as the calculations involved that dragged on game play. i dont mind detail but when you are battling, keeping track of spell duration should be the least of your worries

Having played D&D, AD&D, 3.0, 3.5 and 4.0, I must say that all sources have their ups and downs. Pretty much all explained in the prvious posts, but I will not be converting. As a DM, I allow my players to convert anything they find into 3.5 rules, and I run my world, of which the players helped me create, in 3.5 rules. I don’t always apply rules to to scenarios. I think 3.5 has laid out good “Guideline” rules, but it always comes down to “I try to open the door, can I do it?” and I reply based upon logic derived from the rules. There isn’t necessarily a need to role out everything, including battles. So if you can balance the “On the fly” answers and rolls as a DM, I think 3.5 is an excellent guide to build a campaign off of. Keep the midset of letting your players do as they wish, but remember that you as the DM control the setting, for the story’s sake, and your players should be happy with anything you say that goes. In short, I don’t see a need for 4.0 for anything other than new ideas.

Iv’e been playing since D&D basic and AD&D 1st edition. If all my friends convert to 4th then I suppose I will too, but I’m the DM now and I’m sticking with 3.5. In the old days TSR would release a bunch of adventures and content books, now when I go to the bookstore all they have is a shelf of rulebooks, and now we get more and ‘better rulez’. Boring!! You want me to spend $$$ then release content, I have been using the H1, H2 and soon H3 adventures with 3.5 with no problems. This is what I will buy, adventures not rules!

I have read through 4.0 and i personally dont like it.It is so different, I cant just learn a few rules and play. I have to relearn from the begining, and then have to buy all new everything. not worth it.. The worst part is Wizards, no longer supporting any of the previous versions and taking dragon away from Pizaio (what ever that company is called) just to put it online and make us pay for it there! i liked reading dragon away from the computer. I hope they come to their senses and at the very least continue to support 3.5, it took me a long time to finally (this year 2008) start using that set of rules, i now like them. But 4.0 is summed up in two words….MONTY HAUL!!! its sad.

I perused 4th Edition (both core and Forgotten Realms) because someone I know bought the cores (And the Forgotten Realms expansion).

I’m sold on 4th Edition. Now, I’m someone who will play whatever edition I have the books for. I found 3.5 to be such an over-complicated expansion on 2nd. But looking at just core (I tend to be leery about stepping away from core in ANY edition) 4th ROCKS.

It’s taken the largely intuitive aspects of 2nd and the general expansionsa of 3.5, and somehow melded them. 4th is far more intuitive, and I’m loving the changes to the way the classes are played.

If you are a die hard fan of 1st (AD&D) or 3/3.5, than you might not like 4th. But if you disliked what 3/3.5 did to 2nd, I think you’ll love 4th. And Amazon has a great deal on the 4th Edition core books, all of them for around $66. It’s the boxed set of core books, and I’m seriously considering it.

I highly recommend it, even (especially?) if you got tired of 3.5 due to its massive complication of the AD&D system.

I don’t really see what all the fuss is about. Sure, I was hurt that my favorite class (sorcerer) wasn’t included, but in the end, if you’re open minded enough to try a new game, you will (As far as I can tell, DnD 4.0 is nothing like any of the previous installments.) But if you’re not, then don’t bother either playing or complaining about it. As far as complexity complaints? More complexity means more options, which means more tweaking and personalization. So it’s almost always a good thing.

I really liked the Basic D&D box sets I dont see the point of forking over a dragons hoard, most of the game will end up running on house rules, ours always did, our campaigns were a slam of what ever moduals we liked and stuff we all took a shot at making up. 60 bucks for 3 books… a deal? yea right. I’ll stick with my slam of basic, 1st aD&D edition and second AD&D cdrom. Remember that one? now that was a deal, and TSR wizard hasbro or who ever they are dumped it, to make more money with 3 then 3.5 now 4
na I’ll just stick with my little imagination its got me by for the last 30 years of game play.

I’ve played AD&D since 1981 and still have the originial books. I bought all the stuff that came out, at great expense. When 2nd edition came out I bought all that stuff too. I also played Magic the Gathering from 1994 on, so I knew what to expect when I heard that WOTC was buying the franchise: a new set of core rule books every two years, plus lots and lots of pricey extras to seperate you from your hard-earned dough. And here we are with 3rd edition, 3.5, and now 4.0… Be ready for 4.5 next year, but in the meantime be sure to buy all the 4th edition sourcebooks, suckers!

I’m 14 and me and my two brothers have been playing for around 7 years. I find that the new edition seems to make the game simpler. It combines skills such as sneak and steal, into stealth. And things like that, If you liked 3.5 but didn’t like the complexity of the game, 4e is for you.

I love the 4th Ed rules. Have played DnD well, since it was just Dungeons and Dragons. I cannot wait for the Dark Sun campaign world to come back this summer, the one place I missed by moving on to 3rd Ed. Keep it up WotC….